0:00

it's not just about soothing the W it's about that's where we need to go next to find ourselves and our become our truest

0:07

self so it's almost like um the wound holds the answer that's where we need to go to get what we don't even realize

0:14

we're looking for I mean that work had not only healed me but brought me to my truest self it gave me a purpose in life

0:21

um I'm fully alive so and I wouldn't have been able to be this person if it weren't for that wound and then the

0:28

healing from that wound [Music]

0:38

hello everybody and welcome to True Hope cast the official podcast of true hope Canada where we take a deep dive into

0:43

mental Health's many physiological and psychological aspects this is the show for you if you're looking for motivation

0:49

inspiration knowledge and solutions and that's what we are all about here at true hope Canada and true hope Canada is

0:54

a mind and body based supplement company dedicated first and foremost to promoting brain and body Health through

1:00

noninvasive nutritional means for more information about us you can visit trop canada.com today on the podcast I

1:05

welcome Maggie par now Maggie's four decade journey to Healing from self harm has led her to write a book called A

1:12

Creator's guide to stopping self harm a profound approach to overcoming self injury through creativity and

1:18

self-discovery a unique blend of personal Memoir psychological insight and creative therapy this book is

1:25

designed to provide a transformational manual for healing today on the show we're going to be discussing a Creator's

1:30

guide to stopping self harm enjoy the show okay Maggie welcome to True Hope

1:36

cast how are you what is going well uh I'm doing great I'm loving life here in

1:42

Northern California well I guess you would do yeah in Northern California that's for

1:47

sure and yeah we were just talking about the the tragedies of the a lot a lot of people you probably know and you used to

1:53

live in LA as well and how um just before we even start like our thoughts go out to all those individuals who are

1:58

struggling at the moment it's a it's a crazy wild world that we live in yes I

2:04

agree yeah well we've um we had a little break on the show a good month we usually have a show out every week so we

2:10

had a nice big break and I should be nice and prepared but I've been rushing around this morning but that's all good

2:16

i' got some coffee on the go Maggie is our first guest of the new year which I'm very very excited about and we're

2:23

going to be discussing a Creator's guide to stopping self harm and it's a big

2:29

part of what we want to do on the show is to is to have conversations about topics that are potentially

2:34

uncomfortable for a lot of people but they are absolutely vital they are essential to be had and then that's kind

2:40

of what we're all about here on the show is to provide some sort of support service motivation inspiration knowledge

2:46

to people um so that they can help influence their lives and and the people around them but before we jump into this

2:54

topic would you mind just giving a little bit of a brief introduction about who you are and what it is that you do

3:00

absolutely thank you Simon for having me on the show and welcome back to your podcast for the year I am an artist and

3:08

an author I have done a lot of work designing theme parks and kids stuff and

3:14

very cheerful things and I also do my own expressionist artwork which I have used throughout my life to heal from a

3:21

traumatic childhood and the behaviors I developed to deal with that childhood specifically self Haring behaviors and I

3:29

finally decided this last year to to write the book um which I'll talk with you about today but creativity using

3:36

creativity to heal from trauma is now my new Mission amazing well do do you have a

3:43

copy of the book you can show us I was going to pull it up but yes well I have it on my

3:48

hand nice titled A Creator's guide to stopping self harm and that's one of my paintings on the front

3:55

beautiful well why don't you just jump in tell us a little bit about the book um why' you write it and and who's it

4:01

targeted towards it is obviously targeted towards people who are struggling with self

4:07

Haring cutting burning themselves uh but it's also reaching a lot of people who know others who um who have that issue

4:15

in fact people like people who have children grandchildren are talking to me about it people who used to do it and

4:22

now understanding more why that was and I did it since I was four years old and

4:28

I 57 now and I didn't stop until my mid 40s I went off and on I I really had a

4:35

hard time with stopping it would come up whenever and I was under stress and I learned everything I could but it wasn't

4:41

until and I I did a lot of therapy I recommend anyone who who deals with this issue to go to therapy but it wasn't

4:47

until I started applying my artwork and creativity to solving this that I was

4:54

able to find the breakthroughs in therapy and also in my creative process

5:00

so um I decided to write the book about it and help other people with this to

5:05

teach them what I've learned and to write the book that I wanted and could never find which was a prescriptive

5:11

self-help by someone who actually recovered not a clinician who was

5:18

telling us stories about their patients not a harrowing Memoir from someone's

5:23

point of view where i' had to read all about the details of their cutting but someone who was really offering hope to

5:28

others which was I wanted to do I think that brings so much value because I

5:36

we've spoken to so many amazing practitioners and doctors on the show and they've come to where they are now

5:43

on their what they perceive to be their proper life's journey because they've gone through something traumatic and um

5:51

did very very difficult for them they've had to work through it and completely Chang perceptions on things and now

5:57

they're basically just going through like attempting to support people to not go through what they went through and

6:03

without question whether it's a whether it's a book or or or a podcast or even I guess a true story in a movie there's so

6:11

much value in that human connectivity that you have of you're actually telling the story and you are

6:16

literally bleeding out that truth um excuse my wording though in

6:22

regards to the yeah yeah for sure um I got a question in regards to because when I so

6:30

I I've not never experienced self harm personally to myself um I think I recall

6:35

a maybe maybe um somebody in my school of a thousand people um going through

6:40

that um but when I think of it I think of adolescent teens primarily girls but

6:48

when you just said you started at four years old um I've got to ask about that like I've got to ask like you've

6:53

obviously been through therapy you've had clinical um sessions and know I

6:59

think we there's a lot of re there's a lot of um understanding in literature in regards to why adolescent teens in that

7:07

incredibly difficult time of of Life go through something we've seen it with

7:13

like self harm and cutting we've seen it with anorexia and we see it in and actually like clusters and groups of

7:19

adolescent girls doing it kind of like together and we're kind of seeing it a little bit now in regards to like

7:24

identity we can get into that a little bit later but I want to talk about like the the four year- old in you that was

7:31

experiencing self harm and how you've obviously had gone through a lot of therapy to go back to that place to try

7:37

and I don't know work through that inner child work can you kind of take us back there and and explain a little bit more

7:43

back to four you brought up a lot of things and I and I but I want to start with that question why for what was

7:50

happening um I I was being abused not everyone who cuts and burns was sexually

7:58

abused but I was and that's probably why I started so early and it was a way to try to get

8:03

someone to see what was going on I showed uh I scraped myself with a safety pin and and um I showed my mom and

8:11

wanted to get help but she was you know this she was not able to she was with an abusive man and didn't feel empowered to

8:19

do whatever she needed to do to save me and so it became my voice on the skin a way to say something's happening

8:26

paradoxically though it was also soothing so I hid it so that I wouldn't

8:31

be so that it could be my own thing so although it was a way to try to get attention it was also a very private

8:38

secret thing that was soothing to me um it intensified when I was 12 and I and I

8:45

started getting more serious about it switched to razor blades got into therapy at 14 and that started the cycle

8:53

of going back and forth trying to understand trying to stop when I went to therapy at 14 this was 19

9:00

1981 and people didn't know much about it uh PTSD had only just been entered

9:06

into the DSM thanks to um veterans and the clinicians who were working with

9:11

them so not much was out there um and I I got some success midlife but

9:20

then it came back in my 40s and then there was really nothing out there for people in their 40s again this this

9:27

stereotype of the female teenager being the the main person who cuts himself is

9:34

still persists and what I found when I relapsed again in my 40s is that I

9:39

online this was now the beginning of the online communities and people were talking about grandmothers ashamed of

9:47

still doing it men were talking about it and now when I was researching this book and writing it last year I have found

9:54

that just in what has been self-reported like National mental health um stat

9:59

statistics 17% of teenagers have self hared but 5 to 6% of adults and almost

10:05

2% of kids but younger than teenagers and I applied those statistics to

10:11

current populations just in the US which is where I live and came up with roughly 14 million people and I was shocked at

10:17

how many that was it 35% of them self-reported are men and most people believe it's more than that so probably

10:24

about half men so we really don't understand the depth and breadth of this

10:29

issue among the populations and it's it's happening in other countries as well so if there are 14 million in the

10:34

US I imagine there are more in other countries so I realize there is a need

10:40

to talk about this more when you talk about soothing can

10:46

you explain that a little bit more like do we do we have an understanding of like what's the biochemical nature of

10:53

why that might be a um why why that's why that's there

11:00

I'm not sure exactly of the biochemical nature I just know that it's a commonality among anyone who's

11:07

reported self-reported why they self harm is that it is and it's pretty much

11:12

accepted with clinicians as well that it it is soothing for some reason for me

11:18

and I don't want to get graphic or triggering for people but for me the the act that

11:23

feeling of um cutting in the aftermath for some reason releas least chemicals

11:30

adrenaline something that calmed me it was like it was like Ridin um and I made I felt helped me

11:37

feel like I was in control of the overwhelming feelings and I had a voice and a way to vent them um and then the

11:45

after care was always really important which I found is very common nurturing the wound Band-Aids um letting it heal

11:54

so it was like a a strange sort of reenactment of abuse and then nurtur Ing and healing

12:01

it interesting yeah and in your experience Looking Back Now over over

12:07

the over the years have you been able to maybe come to some sort of understanding

12:13

or conclusion why it is that you it's a difficult one to kind of word

12:20

but I'm just thinking of a there's like you could you could be a 20 a 20y old and then a foury old very very different

12:26

psychologically when it comes to like development and I would understand um

12:31

the the practice of a of a four-year-old doing something like that as a self-protective mechanism that's

12:39

not really in the conscious control of that small child and obviously I think

12:46

when you use the word now when you using the word like abused at four years old

12:52

and then and then leading down a road of self harm it makes me connected to

12:57

Teenagers Who may not be physically abused when they're you know going through puberty

13:02

and going through school and going through high school and going through the the fashion and all that like

13:08

difficult difficult things like going from a 12y old to a 14y old it's challenging for everybody but it's

13:14

without question like you being you're being abused kind of like socially or psychologically or physically in many in

13:20

many cases so it just goes to show like what what's the what's the body doing

13:25

what's this response what's this reaction happening where people are you know um physically hurting themselves

13:33

opening themselves up um it's a very interesting foral I've never I've never looked into the um into the research on

13:40

it and as you say like maybe a lot of it is still incredibly misunderstood what's the what's the kind

13:46

of the current treatment plan I mean you you when you first went to I think you

13:51

were 14 or 12 when you said you first went to therapy what what's the treatment plan then in like the in the

13:57

early mid mid 80s to now well there was no treatment I remember I my we had very

14:04

little money so we went to I went to a sliding scale local clinic and my PS psychologist at 14 she was she was a

14:10

counselor she wasn't a psychologist she told me later that she had to consult with her Superior because they'd never

14:17

heard of it this was in 1981 um it's obviously not the first time it had happened it's just there

14:23

nobody knew what to do about it the field of Psychology was still dealing with the impact that

14:29

childhood trauma affects us as adults so there was no treatment other than

14:35

talking and listening as time went on I was in psychoanalysis for um off and on

14:43

from my 20s to 40s and I with one person who I resonated with and it wasn't it

14:48

got me only so far and it wasn't until the field of psychology deepened and changed and

14:56

added new modalities as a result of lot of the societal and scientific discoveries so that trauma therapy

15:04

therapy became um an accepted H branch of humanistic

15:10

psychology so PE so when I went back to therapy when I started cutting it in my 40s I found a new therapist who was

15:16

trained in tra trauma therapy and specifically somatic experiencing and that really helped me grounding it in my

15:23

body because what had happened as a result of the trauma and and yes I agree that trauma can be childhood sexual

15:31

physical but also bullying as teenagers not fitting in subtle things like

15:37

not not to being validated not being recognized you know it's different for

15:42

everyone but the trauma therapy grounding into my body helped me get

15:48

past the specifics of what the trauma might have been or the memories and into healing where it lived which was in this

15:54

nonverbal place um there's a great article I read it's in the book called a voice on the skin talking about

16:02

this nonverbal way of speaking through self Haring and scarring the body and

16:09

that really helped me understand why the talk therapy wasn't getting through I needed sematic body work to really get

16:17

in touch with this part of me that it was L literally dissociated a part that was doing the self

16:24

Haring yeah from what I understand about sematic work we've had sematic practitioners on the show my wife's

16:30

actually one as well so I'm learning I'm learning a whole lot about that and what I know

16:35

about trauma kind of in the moment and PTSD and the response to something be B

16:41

psychological or um or physical is the body or the Mind especially

16:49

will change its focus heavily so you've obviously got the

16:54

sympathetic nervous system where your nervous system is engaging in a way that it's looking to fight or flee and it's

17:01

not in the present moment it focus is not really on the digestive system it's not really on the the future it's like

17:08

right now two minutes what are we going to do to get out of this state and then when we live in that moment for a long periods of time with let's just say like

17:14

long-term abuse which you know comes in many forms the body is in this constant

17:20

shocked stressed State and we know that the body the adrenals physically cannot

17:26

keep producing the biochemistry necessary to keep up with that constant threat coming from the outside world

17:33

right and I feel like a lot of people will then be living very much outside of

17:39

their body their focus is so much on the outside world on their their job their school their teacher their bully the

17:46

latest fashion all all all that I'm so focused on fashion today that's very but

17:52

must have been traumatizing for you somewhere clearly I I had a school uniform at school from 6 to 18 so that

17:58

wasn't that explains it yeah it's just about how how cool you wore your tie but

18:04

you've got so much focus on this outside world and it comes to a point where we we're no longer able to refocus the

18:12

energy back into us so the the idea of like doing yoga or meditation or being

18:18

with your own thoughts and feelings and behaviors is a very challenging thing to

18:23

do and we've got not only do we have this these external traumas coming in but we have all these distractions as

18:28

well we've got fast food colorful signs we've got phones we've got social media

18:33

we've got all this like absolute nonsense and all of our energy which you know on a daily basis is is limited it's

18:41

not infinite so much of it is going on the on these things are outside of us and then we're just so unbelievably

18:48

depleted that when we do want to bring some Focus back on ourselves first of

18:54

all we're not doing it because we're so um so distracted and second of all we just don't have the capacity to actually

19:01

do it so we've just got this lack lack of connection to the physical body so going back to the sematics makes

19:07

absolutely so much sense that a lot more um recovery healing would come when

19:14

you're able to work with a practitioner that can work with you to actually bring that Focus back to you back to your body

19:19

back to those parts of your your um your body that were being self harmed and actually having other know conversations

19:26

with that or being able to like feel I feel like that's such a powerful to do

19:32

and we don't get taught that really in schools in regards to like I know we see

19:38

some amazing things in like Japan for example where you know meditation and yoga is part of part of the school

19:44

day and for me meditation or prayer is this this

19:50

re-energizing state where I'm able to actually feel continue to fill my cup and if I feel depleted I feel stressed

19:57

right take some breaths and you can take five to 10 minutes to do this and you can change so much within you very very

20:04

quickly but we're not taught that we're taught to struggle and strive and keep

20:11

going and don't show anyone your literally don't show anyone your scars be them physical or in emotional and

20:18

it's such a struggle for people because we all want support we all want love and cuddles and Community but we don't live

20:25

in a world right now that is um letting people find that and be

20:34

comforted and be vulnerable in their recovery well that's what you mentioned

20:41

the spiritual prayer and meditation aspect and that is a big part of it because yes I advocate therapy and

20:49

sematic experiencing and all of that but therapy a good therapist will work with you for 50 minutes and that leaves over

20:55

10,000 minutes left in a week where we have to to be by ourselves with our head and our feelings and so that soothing

21:03

we're searching for we have to learn how to give that to ourselves and with a

21:09

brain that is I would say damaged but also that is not learned how to self- soothe that can

21:15

be really difficult and we need some sort of other help for me um I'm in

21:21

recovery program so I've been encouraged to find a higher power of my own understanding so that's always been a

21:27

focus but I in doing this recovery work with the self Haring and using my

21:32

creativity I realized I can direct my creativity toward find not only finding

21:38

a new voice and things to express in other ways but reaching a higher power

21:43

that's creatively my own specifically one that the part of me that would cut myself could believe in rely on have

21:52

faith in and ultimately talk to and get soothing from so that was a big part of

21:58

the create a process was making a spiritual connection for the cutter

22:04

mhm yeah the spiritual element is so huge for so many different things be

22:10

that for something like self-cutting or depression anxiety all of these things that um lead people down very dark roads

22:18

and I just want to kind of finish up on on a point I was making in regards to having

22:24

that energy that cup that that that that life force that we have have um being

22:31

depleted because of all these things going on around us and here at true hope yeah we've seen so many individuals who

22:38

come come to us to reach out to us usually because they've spent years decades in some cases

22:45

working with um doctors on on specific psychotropic medications and they end up

22:51

just not working for them they're not getting better they're not healing and they come to us as kind of like their

22:57

last hope and their true hope and those people once they are able

23:03

to begin to replenish their physical body with nutrition in a very unique bioavailable

23:11

form that regardless of your digestive absorption Integrity you're able to up

23:17

upload and absorb this nutrition into your body and into your brain it gives people that little bit of increase in

23:24

that cup that little bit of a a boost where they're able to actually start

23:30

thinking about themselves a little bit more they're able to actually bring some Focus internally to be able to to do the

23:38

other things that are hugely important for one's mental health be that to get outside to speak to a friend to move

23:46

their body to choose a different meal option for example and yeah it's just

23:53

it's just so it's just so forr rounded because I I I talk about basically that

23:59

point in almost every episode with all these amazing guests who talk about all these different things but it's like

24:05

this foundational piece that if we're not providing our brain and our body with like the foundational things that

24:12

it needs and not necessarily just like amazing nutrition but like

24:17

Community movement these things like we don't think about them as like foundational pieces but these are like

24:25

macronutrients you know you've got fats carbs and proteins but you also you've got like community and love and

24:31

spirituality and all of these things play an absolutely huge part of what it is to be a human being and if we're not paying just a little bit of focus on

24:38

these things then you can go from somebody who like is is sad and upset to

24:43

somebody who's like clinically depressed very very quickly and a lot of that has got to do with the fact that their body

24:49

is no longer getting the right minerals antioxidants vitamins it needs to

24:55

actually produce the chemicals to make you feel good and to make you sleep better and to give you energy to

25:01

exercise so there's a lot of foundational pieces that come into this I'm sure I'd I'd love to get your

25:07

opinions on that in regards to th those foundational elements that are kind of vital for people to um to avoid self

25:15

harm or or come out the other end of it like you have well I agree I love that idea of macronutrients being not just

25:22

the foods and nutrients but the community and spirituality and all the things we do and I also agree one of the

25:30

elements that I have worked with my whole life is my diet and exercise routines in order to maximize my my

25:38

health and my chances at having a good day because I I I had to give up sugar

25:44

along the way I don't drink or use drugs I try to get eight and a half hours of

25:50

sleep I try to move at least 20 minutes a day those foundational things I discovered were so just so crucial I

25:57

take them almost for granted Ed now they were so crucial in managing my

26:02

depression um I resisted anti-depressants until my mid-40s and this relapse and cutting and finally

26:09

allowed my doctor to put me in half dose and it really helped me and I and I still have a very minimal dose um and

26:16

it's it's just changed my world but for the most part I Rely heavily on nutrients and and good food and the

26:24

community is important and that is one area that I find is not we have communities and 12-step groups for so

26:30

many other issues but not for people who cut and burn themselves there's still a lot of stigma a lot of confusion

26:37

isolation around that and I don't have an answer for it yet except that um writing the book was the beginning of it

26:44

creating the website stopping self har.com is another beginning I have other ideas of how to proceed again I'm

26:51

not a therapist so I have to be careful about that but that I imagine there has to be some way that we can find

26:57

community and at least share our Solutions with each other and with every you know when you're depressed eating

27:03

well is sort of at the last of your last on the list because you just can't even get up out of bed yeah but I find that

27:11

with every win like let's say I get a good night's sleep then I can leverage that to eat a little better and it might

27:17

help my depression so it's they all work together it's not just one thing and as you said there's no no one teaches us

27:23

how to do this so we're those of us who came out of it and healed can help the

27:28

others who are still struggling with what we learned yeah I'd love to get maybe a

27:34

perspective but of because I think a lot of people maybe listening to this might

27:40

know somebody or know somebody who knows somebody who's whose child or brother or sister or partner or whatever is going

27:47

through something like this and it's obviously a very difficult touch unless you're a trained psychologist like how

27:53

would you how do you bring this up it's very challenging and especially we'll just go straight to probably the most challenging um area would be like how

28:00

would you begin to talk to a 14-year-old about what you suspect to be

28:07

you know self self har and I think teenagers probably think that they hide things brilliantly but parents are kind

28:12

of always aware always watching and and and always um maybe not watching but

28:18

like you always care you know I'm 40 years old and my my mom I'm the youngest of three and I'm still her baby you know

28:24

so she still constantly thinks and worries about me all the time and obviously never stops so I just wondered like just thinking of

28:31

like advice for parents who have children going through something like this like how do you um how would you

28:37

recommend maybe H starting conversations or um or or not in some cases I guess

28:43

maybe oh definitely yes start the conversation I I I did not have those

28:48

parents in fact I used to reach across the dinner table with an open wound on my arm and ask for the potatoes and

28:54

nobody would say a word so it was very strange being invisible and that was part of the problem but so what I would

29:01

have wanted at 14 that's the best experience I can give is what I would have would have helped me was actually a

29:07

teacher did help me a teacher did help me and she didn't judge me that was the main thing she didn't shame me or judge

29:13

me or put her fear of what I was doing front and center so that I would have to soothe her fear and she just showed

29:21

curiosity and love and caring and how can I help I just want to listen tell me

29:27

what going on and it is very hard to talk about because as I said it's actually a nonverbal thing one thing I

29:34

wanted to mention earlier is that it's a primal thing as well Studies have shown

29:40

that animals do it dogs self harm um primates other primate self harm if they

29:45

are miserable enough in cages in in Labs they've been documented as self harming

29:50

so it is it's a very Primal experience and it's so hard to talk about but just a little bit of love and attention

29:58

attention is really important that's what I was starving for growing up and just the act of caring like I have

30:06

recommend in my book to parents and grandparents who know loved ones and

30:11

it's just really a suggestion about an alternative to self Haring exploring drawing and creativity and the exercises

30:18

in the book and the self- soothing exercises it's just a way to gain their

30:23

trust and and show them you care and and I'm someone who's gone through it and so obviously it is possible to recover from

30:30

this MH beautiful well said I think there's a big message there in regards

30:36

to it's it we don't know what other people are going through um be that strangers or family members or friends

30:43

and um I'm blessed to work with such a phenomenal company we have these incredible Monday morning meetings and

30:49

we we go through our Mission Vision Values and so much of it is wrapped around compassion and understanding um

30:55

that people are in different places people are going through different things and something traumatic can mean

31:01

something in totally different to me than it's to somebody else and it's just good to maybe come in with a a baseline

31:07

of understanding and love and compassion I think that if you've got a um a spiritual aspect to your life or a

31:13

spiritual practice it's a lot easier to get into those States um for people and

31:19

I think that it's just yeah it's a wonderful way to do that and as you were talking about describing you you know

31:24

leaning over the table with open wounds and nobody back an eyelid it's it's it's

31:30

so hard to believe I saw that impact you yeah no yeah it did it did because you

31:35

you get you get that image and it's like whe whether that was my worst enemy or a stranger or a family member it's like

31:42

that has to do something again Primal to you that it's like to to take care and it makes me think of the individuals who

31:49

who were there and saw that how dark they must have been in their journey and

31:55

what must have happened to them to struggling yeah and again compassion

32:01

right like I think most people try and do their best but there is a lot of lot of Darkness underneath the the surface

32:09

layer for for many many people and sometimes it's just a a kind word or

32:17

a quiet word or silence in space that can do so much for people just to just

32:23

to let somebody know that you're there for them and it just goes It goes such a

32:28

long way I agree I agree I'd love to finish off talking about creativity and

32:35

why it's why do you feel it's essential for healing and maybe you can give people some some examples for that

32:40

because I think creativity creativity is very very interesting because everyone I think we're I think we're born with it I

32:47

think that it's a huge part of how we are supposed to be human beings from

32:53

birth to death I think creativity has done the most amazing things in human existence maybe not in the last couple

32:59

of hundred years I think about school I think about my experience in school and

33:05

how it actually killed creativity and there's some amazing TED talks about about that um in regards to how how

33:13

industrial kind of school system doesn't really breede creativity collaboration all these things and when you turn into

33:21

a when you turn when you when you become an adult um it's about you know it's

33:26

about fueling the economy it's about working and doing all these things you don't have you don't have time for you don't have time for painting you don't

33:32

have time for doing all these creative wonderful things you know you got to work and do these things but like how

33:39

how wrong we are in regards to the value of those things and how it um fuel fuels

33:45

develops and breeds certain parts of our brain that connect us with these incredible things outside of us nature

33:51

the cosmos each other and if we're not doing that we are we're becoming like

33:56

subhuman we're we're not full we're not not even getting anywhere near to our full potential if we're not practicing

34:02

this creative this creative thing we have in our mind so I just wanted to like get your ideas your experience and

34:08

maybe some recommendations in regards to what people can do to start thinking about being creative because a lot of

34:14

people haven't done that since they were doing art school when they were 12 years old yeah and that's a that's a great

34:19

question one of the the resources that inspired this book I love this book it's called your brain on art by um Susan

34:27

Ross and Susan maximan and Ivy Ross um and it gathers all of the current

34:33

research being done on the effect of arts and creativity on the brain and

34:38

neuroplasticity and they're they're they've created a new field called neuro Arts where they Advocate prescribing art

34:45

making for in therapeutic settings because Studies have shown how much it benefits people and helps with healing

34:53

PTSD and giving people a voice from veterans to victims of crimes all kinds

34:58

of things um and for me I and you don't have to be an artist to do all this

35:03

you're right it's our it's our human Birthright and I make that clear in the book um it's really about connecting to

35:10

the the little kid who is our true authentic voice and has no problem

35:15

creating it's the adult that judges or silences it but getting back in touch with that creative voice is very healing

35:23

and I discovered along the way that when I literally cut into the G on my paintings and then painted red paint

35:30

into that it would def it would not distract me but it would be give me another Outlet so I wouldn't have to do

35:37

that to my skin and then in putting those cuts into the paintings I was creating something else a narrative that

35:44

would surprise me with what came out and so in doing that I started realizing

35:50

there are other things I can do that make me feel that I can express in some way an example po to help possibly

35:58

viewers is when I was in therapy once we

36:03

were getting in touch with the sematic experien and we were getting in touch with this part of me that was cutting

36:09

that I didn't didn't have a voice other than the self harm and it it took over

36:14

me in this flood of energy um chemical reactions and so she gave me a my

36:21

therapist gave me a piece of paper and a pen so that I could do something and I just started scribbling it was like an

36:26

automatic drawing type thing and what came out was something

36:31

that I didn't recognize I'm a trained artist and this was someone else Drew this thing what it felt like but what it

36:37

was was this part of me that cut which traced back to my little tomboy who was being

36:43

abused uh saying help over and over in this drawing and then scribbling out the

36:50

words because I wasn't allowed to say that and I learned so much from that and it gave me my first outlet and it gave

36:57

gave me I was able to assign that cutter a new job which was creating the stuff

37:04

inside me and I and I started doing these types of expressive paintings that I'm doing behind me um and I and I

37:12

recommend that in the book a form of automatic drawing that I call rage art because we got to get that stuff out and

37:18

when we create as opposed to just say going into a rage room and banging old televisions and stuff we're actually

37:25

giving it a new voice away to speak more coherently in a visual language which is

37:31

the language of kids before we're it's trained out of us so there are many more

37:36

exercises in the book but I have to say that's one of my favorites because it came to me spontaneously and I've other people have

37:43

done it are always surprised about what they can create whether they're artists or not something comes out something

37:49

authentic well I think that when you start engaging that creative brain in a

37:54

practice like that you can gain access to things that you couldn't possibly do in any other way absolutely and what I

38:02

would like to just share with with with everyone the audience is like what we do know about like traumatic events that

38:08

happen when you're two years old five years five years old whatever the the

38:14

the body creates a mechanism a pathway to help as best it can to get through that for

38:20

somebody and that can last with them forever I like to think of it as like a new security program that is very

38:26

quickly uploaded MH and it's kind of always there unless it's got you go back

38:33

to it and you reprogram like you literally have to go go in there and do that I think that's a good way for

38:39

people to kind of understand how something that happen to to to you when you're a four or four or whatever can

38:46

significantly impact parts of your life not every single part of your life as an adult but it can come up in stressful

38:52

situations because you're engaging that let's call it your security pathway

38:58

right in your in your nervous system and there are these programs there that were put in place to get you through

39:05

moments and unless you do the work and we know so much now about

39:11

neuroplasticity and how we can change our mind and we can fire and rewire

39:18

neurop Pathways to create all sorts of incredible things for us you know um

39:24

there's so much that we can do with this work and there are so many incredible books podcasts practitioners out there

39:31

offering these services and in my opinion when it comes to to to therapy

39:37

sematic work and working with your physical body you won't you you won't find

39:44

anything that works I don't want to say quicker but like that you'll feel more engaged with I know a lot of people have

39:49

gone to therapy and it's taken years for them to really like have that kind of like ah Hara moment and they're just

39:55

they're just in I feel people in their heads too much and not engaging this

40:01

incredible physical body which is just littered with nerve cells that remembers

40:07

and it's um yeah it's just a fact I'm so happy that the all these sematic practitioners coming out right now and

40:14

and it's really going to provide a lot of help for people because people can do a lot of this work um at home online

40:22

doing courses and then and then use the the exercise is that they learn in

40:28

the moments when they start recognizing that these Security Programs are coming up for them and then they're able to

40:35

kind of stop it in its tracks and that's where the reprogramming happens and people can do some phenomenal things and

40:41

they might not even be aware that the thing that happened to them when they're four years old that that that program is

40:48

coming up for them in so many different situations and holding them back from so much whether it's relationships jobs

40:54

doing that that that risky thing um right yeah it's it's super interesting

40:59

and we're yeah we're in a we just started talking about how we're the start of the show how we're in a wild

41:05

world but possibility you know I think the majority of fabulous things come from

41:11

when things are most chaotic and I agree dangerous whatever it's it's a place of opportunity and um we've got the

41:19

internet and we've got all these incredible things at our fingertips and a lot a lot of these things

41:24

are free and very cheap uh these days so

41:30

yeah yeah and I would I would take that one step further that it's not just soothing in the moment that when those

41:36

programs come up as you said or the the the trauma or the wound it's not just about soothing the

41:42

wound it's about that's where we need to go next to find ourselves and our become our truest self so it's almost like um

41:50

the wound holds the answer that's where we need to go to get what we don't even realize we're looking for I mean that

41:56

work had not only healed me but brought me to my truest self it gave me a purpose in life um I'm fully alive so

42:04

and I wouldn't have been able to be this person if it weren't for that wound and then the healing from that wound the

42:12

wound has the answer yes that's awesome I love that so much um beautiful Maggie

42:20

thank you so much for that um just before we check out can you just tell people a little bit about how they can

42:26

connect with you if they've got questions if they want to grab your book is there like a little preview people can read you can always go to maggie.com

42:33

if you want to reach me but um the a Creator's guide to stopping self harm is on Amazon and the corresponding website

42:42

is stopping self har.com you can reach me by email through either of those

42:47

sites amazing and you actually mentioned a couple of um books that has supported

42:53

you and helped you I I'll I'll get those from you and I'll put the in the link so

42:58

people can find find those um are there any maybe podcasters out there or um

43:05

other resources that you think would be valuable for people if they wanted to like learn more like I just think about who's who's the most predominant

43:13

psychiatrist or or doctor or or therapist that that's talking about this openly and and providing a lot of

43:20

information you know I I work with my therapist and haven't explored other podcasts but I do uh you know know the

43:27

the main book the body keeps the score uh family systems therapy is great um as

43:33

I said your brain on Art i' I've referred to books so I can send you those links amazing and you can put them

43:39

on the site perfect Maggie yeah that's that's wonderful well thank you so much for coming on the show today such an

43:45

interesting topic and you've opened up beautifully to us and I think that's very valuable for a lot of people

43:51

probably valuable for yourself as well during your bra process of course um so thanks so much for coming on the show I

43:56

appreciate it thank you beautiful well that is it for this episode of True Hope cast the

44:01

official podcast of true hope Canada I will leave links in the show notes for you to connect with Maggie and check out

44:08

any of those other amazing books and resources that we've mentioned we'll be back with you next week uh leave us a

44:14

review on iTunes if you wish and a star review on Spotify other than that we'll see you next week

44:23

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