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[Music]

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welcome to True Hope cast the official podcast of true hope Canada where we take a deep dive into mental health many

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physiological and psychological aspects this is the show for you if you're looking for motivation inspiration

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knowledge and solutions and that's what we're all about here at true hope Canada and true hope Canada is a mind and body

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based supplement company dedicated first and foremost to promoting brain and body Health through noninvasive nutritional

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means for more information about us please visit Tru hopec canada.com today on the podcast I have the pleasure of

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welcoming Marie burtle Marie uncovers patterns of dependency in family systems and thanks to her experience as a

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journalist and a university lecturer as well as her work in children's hospices and as a psychological counselor she's

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able to bridge those two worlds her focus is on helping people recognize stressful systems and liberate

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themselves from them enabling them to lead a free and happier life today on the show we're going to be discussing

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understanding transgenerational trauma enjoy the show okay hi Marie welcome to True Hope cast

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I really appreciate your time today how are you what's going well thank you so much for having me

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today uh I'm fine how are you oh I'm doing wonderful thank you y and um

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you're in the south of France so you're nine hours ahead of me so I just wanted to say again I really appreciate you

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taking the time this evening to talk with us and how amazing is it that we're able to actually do that with the

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technology that's available exactly amazing yeah it's

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pretty cool so we're going to be discussing understanding transgenerational trauma today but

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before we jump into that amazing topic can you just give us a little bit of an understanding of who you are and what it

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is that you do please sure um so I'm a psychological

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advisor and an author I just just um got 40 years old I'm originally from Germany

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and I live at this point between Germany Hamburg where is very much in the north

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um with very bad weather all the time so um I moved to south of France like two

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or three years ago so um I'm switching be between both um of these countries at

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this moment and what I do is like I work a lot um in educating um people about

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narcissistic abuse and uh transgenerational trauma and I published

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my book I love you when um exactly yesterday one year ago so it's happy birthday to the

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book um and it's about exactly this topic to educate and um yeah um bring

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awareness to people that um trauma is not a thing that you have

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um in one generation but it it it goes from one to generation to the next and

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this is what yes I do um with passion why do you do it with

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passion because um yeah that's a good question um I Heard once a PhD

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saying uh dealing with narcissistic abuse or uh topics like this you never

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do it without um personal um um memory

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or personal um how you say [Music] um um like uh I can't find the word

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experience thank you so much I'm German so my English is not perfect so thank you for this so yes exactly like

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experience so um I have developed in my own life very late um that I come from a

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narcissistic family um and I had a lot of symptoms since my childhood I grew up

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with two brothers that also had symptoms and what was so interesting with this is that um from outside everybody would

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think like our life is perfect because you know the values of people nowadays is like

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[Music] um richness is materialistic so from

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outside everybody would say like oh you have a perfect life um everything looks

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good from the outside but what is um going on behind the scene Behind the

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Walls is not really shown so yeah and I I came um through these experiences and

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I said um I'm writing since my childhood and I said I have to write a book about

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it and um to help others about it that's that's the passion that I bring with MH

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amazing yeah I think what's interesting you said there as in regards to the definition of like wealth Health success

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what that actually means whether that's as an individual or as a society I think for a lot of people especially younger

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Generations they might feel that to be healthy to be wealthy and to be successful is to have a million

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Instagram followers and to have loads of money and to have four cars but um that

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really really for me certainly doesn't um doesn't translate you know to me for me to be me to have a successful morning

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I'd rather think of it like that whether to be able to exercise and drink water and take my my supplements or to um to

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have a to have health you know I think that you can actually be you can have a disease you can have an illness but

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still be healthy in regards to your application to getting better um I think there's very interesting

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definitions and I think that for a lot of generations um that's certainly changed what that what that those things

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actually mean um so interesting interesting point um I'd love to just jump straight into what is

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transgenerational trauma and what does what does that mean for people well so um transgenerational

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trauma is a topic that um I know is not very much um talked about I know the

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media and um probably social media is like talking more and more about it and

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in fact it's about um I start with explaining a little bit about what um happens when you um are traumatized so

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trauma um definition of trauma means something happens um that your inner

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self can't build inner in your inner self um that happens in the outside so I

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I always work with examples so I give you one example so we are born into this world as a baby we are I am my opinion

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is like when you are born into this world nobody is born evil or bad so um

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you're coming to this world you have two parents if it's working good and these parents are um yeah they have the

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responsibility to bring you into this world to give you comfort to um teach you how to get into relationship to

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teach you how to be in this world so um what you have also in your inner self um

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buil uh up is that um your mom is saving you or helping you breastfeeding you

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like she's the one who is like a caregiver and also your Dad should be a caregiver so this is something that you

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grow up and you have like your parents and then you get like 18 years old healthy you can build healthy

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relationships you can build a health healthy self-esteem what is very important for us if you are born into a

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family system that doesn't give this and it doesn't mean it has to be like like

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one parent is absent or something happens to one parent so that's the reason why there's only one person

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educating this is not what I'm talking about so trauma means like there's somebody in your family system like one

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of the parents who traumatizes you by for

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example hitting you abusing you emotionally um

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physically psychologically wise so this is what I call traa so this is something

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that a child can't get rid of because I always say like no child can just take

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um the bag and run away um you are totally dependent on your parents so

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what you do automatically as a child is like you do everything that your parent loves you or does what you want to if

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it's not working out and this is very intelligent from our psychology you probably know it we are um uh saving us

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selves ourselves in um um splitting this um away like okay this is a picture my

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dad is like slapping me so I'm just not um I don't want to see it I can't see it

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because I don't survive so I'm splitting it away and this is called trauma this

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is when it happens that some people they get older they get you know they move out and then one day at 20 they don't

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even realize or remember that that the dad was slapping them or they

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internalize it and say like it's normal so this is the probably like this is

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what trauma trauma means so generational trauma transgenerational trauma means we

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are traumatized we used to um say okay we learned being love means we are being

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um abused and this is like in all you know what I just said emotionally

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sexually um these ways and then we take

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this for this is the way how somebody loves me so this is how we learn how to

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love so what is the normal result we do the same because if we love somebody we

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do it and this is when I say like the father hit the son the son grows up he

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doesn't work out the trauma he goes into a relationship when he an adult he's

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probably having a baby with this woman and if something is going wrong

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he's redoing exactly the same what he learned so this is like a pattern and if

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this sun is not you know breaking the cycle he's also taking this as a normal

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part of relationship between Father and Son and he's giving it to the next generation and so on and so on and so

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this is only a you know yeah um yeah example that's interesting that's a

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great example and it just makes me think of not only just like obviously the physical um trauma that you know parents

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put on their kids but also obviously that psychological aspect as well and it doesn't have to be it could certainly be

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more of like an absence of parenting I think of um my grandparents and my

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parents in regards to you know my um grandfather was in like the second world

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war and then my he was he then he parented my dad and my dad parented me

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and there was a lot of incredible things happening during the world at at the time my grandfather was a parent so

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therefore he couldn't really have necessarily the time with his child like

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I do with my four my three and fivey old right now like because there there was

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war time it was a very stressful difficult time on the planet and there wasn't time for my grandfather to be

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let's just say the parent that he would have wished he could have been because

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it was a very wild time and that type of parenting style

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without question you you know you obviously parent how you were parented unless you are making quite active um

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changes in the way that you want to be able to do that but sometimes circumstances don't do that so I'm just using kind of like my own

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example in the within my my my friend groups and my family groups that I've

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seen that I think that um my my father was amazing he was great but I think

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that he he learned patterns from my from my grandfather where he was a lot more

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um maybe absent in regards to like being being with with me and playing with me

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and spending as much time there also like the societal um aspects have

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changed a lot like when my when my when I was growing up my dad worked my mom

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was at home and taking care of the kids was very much a mother a mother thing and that's massively changed in a

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generation where you know like um the the expectation for fathers to do a lot

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more parenting is is a lot it's a lot higher and you know I'm I'm I'm certainly blessed for that because I get

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to spend so much more time with my kids than than my my father was ever able to do um given given the societal

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circumstances so it's not I just wanted to like paint a little bit of a picture for people that it's when you think of

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transgenerational trauma it's not necessarily that my great-grandfather

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hit my granddad and my granddad hit my father and my father hits me that's

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certainly a physical example which absolutely happens but also there are patterns within parenting that you might

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not might not necessarily see as traumatic but you know not having a absent father um certainly would impact

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you know a young son and and a daughter and if those patterns aren't changed

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rectified or altered in some way then they very easily continue I guess

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through the generations absolutely yes yeah and now you know about your uh grandfather you

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know about your father but there are people outside there they have no clue about what um you know for example who

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are adop Ed or for example my grandfather also was in World War I and

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what happened there and he was um he belonged to the Nazis but in our family

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we never talked about this so also things that are kept like under the

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carpet it's about something nobody talks about it but you feel this and I have to

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say like children feel a lot and they feel everything so they feel um also the

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traa and Trauma means also like what you just said things that happen nobody's

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talking about because all these feelings like um sadness um

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hopelessness um things that probably your grandfather saw in the

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war just you know not coping with this just you know putting it aside because

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also during this generation also men we're not allowed to talk about emotions feelings and things like that so they

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are suppressed they have to be somewhere so it's probably the kids the children who

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feel because they are so open everything so yeah yeah huge point and

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just just as you were talking about your experience um with your grandfather I

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guess not only is there like generational trauma there's probably generational shame with a lot of

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behaviors of certain family members whether that's just a a weird Uncle who

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says horribly inappro things or even an uncle who a lot of people in the family

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knew was abusive but they don't want to talk about it because it's like a shame on the family what will the neighbors

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think and then rather with dealing with it and you know supporting those victims

15:44

um go through the trauma that they would have experienced it's kind of just um swept

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under the carpet and then you know those those kids who were abused turned into adults and and so on and so on and it's

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never really addressed um that that can cause a lot of problems just kind of sweeping those things under

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the carpet exactly and it's interesting that you say although you talk about this

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Uncle because um uh that's what I talk also like in my book about it's it was

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the uncle of my grandmother uh like of my mother um who brought a lot of um

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shame and guilt into the family and it's exactly what you said what happened it's not only that it was put under the

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carpet but it's also um happened a lot of victim shaming because women's women

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were or girls at this time not really yeah seen as equal as men um and I talk

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now about France and Germany like Europe you know um and still um and and still

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this like um is going through all the generations because I still felt it I've

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never been um sexually abused but by this Uncle but knew him and I've really

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felt as a kid already like there was something wrong and um what brings

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together with um this kind of behavior like family is everything like what we

17:13

were talking in the beginning of you know values and everything like family in Germany we say like blood is thicker

17:20

than water um so there's no possibility to reject your family you have to like take

17:27

everything they do and respect them still even if they are like really abusive with you so this is something I

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also want to talk about like say you can go in no contact you can't you have the

17:39

decision you have the right to say no yeah even if it's somebody from the family like you know and even if you're

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a woman or a girl you you have to teach all your girls your little girls like

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say no you don't have to say yes and to be like a little girl um and nice girl

17:58

you know yeah yeah understanding boundaries I think is is a hugely important thing that we kind

18:04

of learn as adults that you know you have to you have to have boundaries of things you know whether that's a friend

18:09

who's asking too much or family members who are taking you know Liberties you have to have boundaries to kind of

18:15

preserve our own sanity and and and preserve our own mental health and that's without question something that

18:21

should be um integrated into the family setting to understand that yeah you need

18:28

to be you need to be comfortable with saying no and being um comfortable with

18:33

knowing what to do if uh no is not taken as an answer um there some there's some very

18:40

interesting things wrapped around like boundaries within the family um that that certainly would um support a lot of

18:48

these younger people who who experience like you know in some cases quite horrific

18:54

things um in regards to this transgenerational trauma piece um how do

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you know if you if you have something like that like if you're not consciously aware you know we know that young kids

19:10

um who do experience traumatic things and have you know PTSD with things um

19:16

the the the mind will sometimes alter or fill in or erase

19:24

the actual reality of of the situations um and then you know you can

19:29

go 10 20 30 40 years and these things don't necessarily become a giant problem

19:35

and then for a lot of people that they end up becoming just that how do you how do you see how do you think people can

19:42

actually understand that something that's holding them back now as their adulthood is something that

19:48

happened from when they were a kid yeah very good question so um

19:54

there's um several indicators so one is um always um look into your

20:01

relationships like um if you have for example always the same kind of partnership that you are going into like

20:08

you have always a partner who is um who you don't trust he's cheating on you or

20:15

always when it comes like um you are getting to know each other you feel like

20:21

oh this might be somebody who I want to get to know more and then just before it

20:26

gets like really close it's over like if these kind of patterns in a relationship

20:33

always come always the same then you have always to ask yourself what what responsibility or

20:42

what bring what are you bringing into this because it's always like it's very

20:48

easy um when you say oh this guy is always cheating on me um or my my friend

20:54

she's always um using Miss using me like I'm like a people pleas are like what is

21:00

your responsibility in this relationship because the good news is you're never a victim in a relationship I have to say

21:07

when you're an adult when you're a kid you're always a victim when it comes to abuse but in the moment you are adult

21:14

and you have possibilities like money you can go to seek for help you can have a therapist you can go to see coachings

21:22

and things like this you are responsibilities uh you you are responsible and latest when you become a

21:29

um parent yourself because you as a dad know exactly it's very

21:36

um crazy when you become a parent because you are like watching this

21:42

little baby and everything is um mirroring you it's like you can't look

21:48

away from you know what you didn't want to see before it's like you know so you

21:55

have the responsibility so look into um relationship patterns you can see it

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also because I have a a lot of female clients that I work with and I have some clients who are saying like oh I I'm

22:08

single since eight years and it's fine for me I don't want to be in a in a relationship and the women's women are

22:14

not 80 years old or 90 they are like 30 or 25 you know this is like very sad so

22:20

it means like there's something relationship wise so ask yourself and seek for help from outside always get

22:28

like a neutal opinion also what you can feel is or you can see is a um body

22:36

symptom like um if you have um for example an eating disorder if you're

22:42

like very much into controlling something in your life for example food

22:50

if you find um yourself like always burnt out because you do a lot for

22:56

others um and the problem is with our body I mean our body is very strong but

23:03

at a certain point our body is like also like okay I'm done now I can't so you get body symptoms like you're very weak

23:12

um you have hormonal imbalances like what this is what women a lot experience um and um nowadays a lot more

23:21

people have um cancer when I when when they are younger like young you know I

23:26

mean I had cancer when I was 20 one and I had a cancer that was like nobody could understand or put it into like

23:34

where did it come from and I believe like your body shows you okay now this

23:41

is not um this is not right you're taking too much from everything because

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in my opinion body mind and soul are like one so these are indicators um yeah

23:53

and mental health like when you feel like depressed when you're a young um

23:59

person and you don't want um to get up in the morning and you need pills to you

24:04

know be um not even happy but um going to your job seeing people like this is

24:12

not this is not normal should be it shouldn't be like this so if you have like Signs like this go see a doctor go

24:19

see a therapist yeah beautifully said I I I think what come out for me from what

24:26

you're saying there is um that we actually have as adults a lot of responsibility around the choices in

24:32

which we make and especially wrapped around let's say relationships like making the same choices that lead you to

24:38

the same relationships that lead you to the same outcome um we actually have a lot of

24:44

responsibility to um make alternative choices and even when it comes to you

24:50

know really not enjoying your job and having to use anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medications to kind of get

24:57

through the struggles that have come from those choices I think

25:03

that with allopathic medicine where you go to

25:09

the doctor you tell him what's up and then he gives you a drug to deal with the problem I think that's taken a

25:15

significant amount of personal responsibility out of the healing process we're actually giving that

25:21

responsibility away completely where you know we don't actually have to

25:26

personally reflect we don't have to to make the necessary changes you know human beings don't really like to make

25:33

significant change because it can lead to places of unfamiliarity and places that are un uh uncomfortable but I think

25:41

we understand now that if you do want to make a significant change in the positive you are going to have to

25:48

think unfamiliar thoughts you're going to have to em um experience unfamiliar

25:54

emotions and behaviors and that ultimately leads to a place of something new um of of uh

26:00

creation so yeah it's the choice choices and personal responsibility is a huge big thing but it's yes again it's

26:07

important to recognize that as adults we we have a lot of we do have a lot of

26:13

choices and options and responsibility but as children it's completely different you know we we're supposed to

26:19

have caregivers that that love us and support us and they're supposed to um protect us from a lot of things and

26:25

teach us how to become adults a lot of people unfortunately aren't in that type

26:31

of an environment so yeah it's yeah it's just it's an interesting aspect of the

26:38

um I guess the the healing the healing process yeah yeah and it's interesting

26:46

what you said about um what feels familiar because the problem is when you come out from um a family system where

26:53

you never really love be Have Been Loved um unconditionally they have been like you

26:59

know issues um relationship wise so you bring it to the the the first

27:04

partnership the second partnership and everything um it feels it might feel

27:10

like very unfamiliar when you meet somebody who is like good and you feel

27:16

like I can't trust this because I don't know this it's new and it's very strange

27:21

because from outside you would always say like well be happy now but there are like really people who are it's like an

27:29

addiction you get addicted like your your nervous system also get addicted I think a lot of people don't know about

27:35

like um it's the same thing as you're drinking or taking drugs because your

27:41

adrenaline and your cortisol levels are so high that at a certain point you need this drama and if you have had this

27:49

drama all your life and then you get into a normal you know

27:56

relationship um it's called it's it's it it can really feel um boring and it's

28:02

like and this is it this is it because drama where is the drama like and then

28:08

you choose sometimes even the narcissist and not the nice guy this is

28:15

like you know saying like oh I always choose the bad guys well yeah yes

28:20

because your brain knows it's not good but your body and your your uh system

28:27

feel feels attracted by this because this is what you know and this is what feels familiar so it's sometimes more

28:34

painful to go out of this familiar structure then try it and the older you

28:40

get the harder it is yeah it's uh it's funny so I think a lot of people experience that or know

28:46

somebody who's kind of gone through their 20s dating the wrong type of guy or the wrong type of girl and then the

28:53

person they end up marrying is a is completely opposite to that the

28:58

characteristics of that kind of original attraction um it's very very interesting

29:06

um so you you wrote a book called I love you when and discover the patterns of

29:14

covert narcissistic abuse in families free yourself and Charter course to break the cycle of

29:20

transgenerational trauma um I mean why did you why did you write that book and who who's it for

29:26

who's the audience for that so I um newly say that it's the book

29:33

that I wrote that I I um would have liked to have okay few years ago because

29:40

um Co narcissism is quite new in the media or what you read about and um that

29:49

what's what's Co narcissism yeah thank you for the question So Co narcissism like okay we

29:55

know um Merling narcissism like um over narcissism like you know people who are

30:01

like very I'm the best I'm gorgeous they are like it's the it's the uh stage

30:07

before Psychopaths they have no empathy they are like you know they are God um

30:14

but Co narcissists and this is like 75% um of women are um Co narcissists

30:21

not 7 like when you get when it gets to narcissism it's like Co narcissists are

30:27

mainly Wom women because socially wise it's more um accepted because Co

30:32

narcissists are playing the victim role they manipulate people through the victim

30:39

role because narcissism is always about manipulation because everything that the

30:45

narcissist does is to get something from um a supply means they don't love they

30:53

don't know how it feels being loved so what they need is um somebody who is in

31:00

their control and to get this control is through manipulation so what over

31:07

narcissists do is they manipulate through money through power through if

31:12

you don't do this I'm G to fire you I'm going to do this blah blah blah victim

31:17

role like covered narcissists is like they manipulate through if you don't do

31:22

this I'm going to be so sad if you don't do this I'm going to be so disappointed

31:28

I have done everything I have um brought you to life um and I gave everything for

31:35

you like and this is what a lot of mothers do not a lot I have to say it's

31:41

the narcissistic bubble I'm very glad to say like most of families are healthy

31:47

yeah but this is something um that comes through sometimes in mothers and I had a mom

31:54

like this unfortunately so I exactly know how it feels so it's like through

31:59

oh you are my child I have given everything for you so you owe me something and yeah it's through shame

32:07

and guilt if you don't do this I'm not happy I deserve this too so everything

32:15

you do as a child is even it's is it the daughter the son you do it for the mom

32:20

if you don't do it for the mom you're not allowed to do it it's like you live for her so this this is

32:28

the cover thing and this is probably the most complicated field for somebody in

32:36

the this kind of system to discover because from outside everybody would say

32:42

oh but your mom is so nice and she's so charming and you want to do everything

32:47

for your mom but I I talk about narcissistic moms who

32:53

are um who would prefer you to really be like living in the cell

32:59

alone right taking care of them until they die because they don't give a

33:04

what what happens after you know what I mean it's like I know you mean do you know what's really funny is at at the be

33:10

at the beginning of that I thought you said covid narcissist and then I and then I quickly

33:16

realized it was covert so I just wanted to make sure that people I like what's a covid narcissist that sounds amazing and

33:22

I bet you there's plenty of them um so that was uh that's interesting we're

33:28

talking about covert with a T at the end narcissism and that was a really great

33:33

breakdown and without question um people have um experienced individuals like

33:39

that and yeah I feel like that they're certainly in a minority I would guess

33:45

because um a lot of people can kind of hopefully break out of those patterns and

33:51

recognize that that's a very self-serving role and a very just

33:57

completely guil ridden um way to interact especially with a with a child

34:02

um it's uh yeah it's it's that's an interesting topic so thank you very much for for expressing that and I'll make

34:09

sure that there's a very clear link to to the book in there but a lot of your work is based around um narcissism right

34:18

and is there are there some clear links in how that connects with this

34:26

transgenerational trauma

34:32

um I would say um not sure I have to say

34:37

like um when you're traumatized um what the link is probably

34:43

is when you're traumatized and you for example um split

34:48

up the mother role like the caregiver

34:53

role um because your mother traumatized you for for example then what your system also does

35:01

you don't only split up as a child your mother role the mother um role but you

35:08

also split up your own abilities um when you are um becoming a mom yourself so

35:15

what happens when um a narcissist is how you say in English I don't want to say

35:21

grow grows up it's when people are traumatized so hard that narcissist is

35:29

um is is really hard they are not born as narcissists this is like you know

35:35

100% sure so something happens very bad in their childhood so um they split up

35:42

all their emotions and um when you talk about

35:47

generational trauma um then you would say like in this case with narcissism together means

35:55

the um emotional um um Capac capacities in this family system are dead so now a

36:03

new child is born so there's only one or two ways like it's an empath growing up

36:10

afterwards or a narcissist too I have a twin brother so I have you know been

36:16

like the empath I'm the scapegoat nobody talks to me anymore because I spoke out

36:21

about it my my twin brother is like he became a millionaire when he was 30

36:26

years old he's like he doesn't care about people he never had French friends

36:33

only if he could could use them you know it's like we we were like this so but in

36:40

general when it comes to generational trauma I have to say there are a lot of traumatic events um when we look at the

36:48

Holocaust for example like um and um what happens there and um the trauma can

36:55

be healed in the family system it can be given from one to the other

37:01

generation but there's possibilities that the Sun or grandson generation can

37:07

talk to the generation that got traumatized and then there's possible it's possible to heal so this is

37:15

normality so you as I I totally understand what you mean but you as the

37:20

empath within your family Dynamic was that were those empathetic qualities um

37:26

nurtured or or is it just something that just you couldn't not be an

37:32

empath I had to do it as a survival mode and I'm still working on it to not use

37:38

it because um what empath I am very thankful now I'm I just got 40 years old

37:45

as I said I'm I'm thankful now but there were times when I said like I would love to be like just an just somebody

37:52

who's not just you know honestly like yeah not thinking about about it but um

37:58

it's not it's not easy to um to put it off because it's like I get into a room

38:04

and I exactly feel the need I feel it so it's it is a talent I always say because

38:12

I work a lot of um with an archetypes from sigung so I take like a deficit as

38:18

a talent but it's really hard to still work with it through life through daily

38:24

life yeah because when you go in a supermarket it's like and this is also what I think is like ADHD coming from um

38:31

and this also sticks everything together like I'm just talking like you know I'm not a therapist I'm not uh but I feel

38:37

like um a lot of people who are like very open and very empathetic they feel

38:43

a lot and sometimes too much so it's sometimes good and sometimes it's not

38:48

really helping in my daily life so um I don't know about you how you feel like I

38:54

don't know but um yeah so but it is a survival yeah I've certainly become more

38:59

empathetic as I've got older and my wife is a strong empath for sure okay uh and I totally understand that it's a

39:05

superpower but it's also a curse because it's yes it's very challenging to sometimes to to uh to deal with that and

39:13

energy is incredibly powerful like you're talking about I think it's a great example you were saying is when you walk into a room and you you know

39:20

you're feeling what everyone else is feeling um that's just a very strong

39:25

Testament to the fact that everything that we experience whether that's light

39:30

or sound or the energy giving up from somebody's anger or their Rage or their

39:36

love like it's a frequency just because we can't see it doesn't mean it's it's

39:41

not there and our bodies are these incredible um

39:47

electrochemical um biocomputers I guess that are

39:53

constantly feeling the energy and the frequency from outs side of us whether that's a Wi-Fi router my computer screen

40:00

here or the love and admiration from my child with a smile you know it's it's

40:06

all energy it's all frequency and some people um just like some people can see

40:13

better and some people can hear better and some people some people can feel better um it's it's that question a

40:20

thing and I think for a lot of people who don't actually live with an empath or understand what that is it can be

40:26

challenging to kind of understand that but I think you can have a lot of sympathy with it but yeah as you say

40:32

it's a superpower and a curse for sure yes yeah let's let's move on from

40:41

that because it's a huge topic and it's it's very interesting but I just wanted to just finish up with um your

40:47

recommendations like in regards to strategies or advice that to offer people who are dealing with you know a

40:53

narcissistic family member because you've already you've dealt with you've dealt with one for a long time yeah so

41:00

um first advice is um if you have already done like you know coachings therapy name it and you still feel like

41:07

something is not you know moving on um what is always interesting is like look

41:12

at the part in your family that you feel like oh I need I don't need to look at this because this was always perfect um

41:20

I I um experienced this a lot with my clients and I experienced it myself like I've always been very good with my

41:26

mother because I always did everything that she wanted but I could only understand afterwards so when you have

41:33

like a father that is always the bad guy and you've always dealt with this with a

41:40

psychologist or somebody and still you feel something is wrong look also on the

41:47

side that looks from outside good I mean best best Cas is um nothing is wrong but

41:54

normally if you're still like showing symptoms it's wrong yeah and also um

41:59

what is very important with when it comes to abuse um like victims or people

42:05

who are in a relationship with a narcissist what they always also do is like they cover it up they um enable it

42:13

also so um it's not always like victim and abuser so it's also um there's one

42:20

it's it's um if you don't if you're not ready to get out of the relationship and I know a lot of people who are like in

42:26

relationships for for example years with somebody and they want to get out and break out and then

42:33

after like two weeks of drama they get into the same pattern again you from outside have no chance to you know help

42:41

them um but this person in the relationship needs to seek for help

42:47

outside and always seek for neutral help I always say like the the um the best um

42:56

people who can help you are neutral helpers not friends because friends are always bringing their own story in they

43:04

also this is something I experienced like healthy people or people who have grown up in healthy systems they can't

43:11

even imagine what is happening they can't even you know think about a

43:17

betrayal trauma is like for them something that somebody made in Hollywood or um you know so you need

43:26

somebody who is like really neutral and an expert um go to seek help go to a

43:33

therapist and also go I mean there are very good coaches nowadays you don't need to see a therapist and yeah get

43:40

help and um Des you deserve a a good life that's what I I have to

43:46

say yeah I completely agree with you that was wonderful wise words at the end there thank you so much yeah I think

43:51

sometimes speaking to a stranger is without without question the most beneficial thing that you can actually that you can actually do to get some

43:58

just just ra rational rational questions coming into you and um yeah huge

44:04

important Point um Marie thank you so much for joining us on the show can you just let us know um how people can

44:10

connect with you and learn more and get your book sure so um my book is um

44:15

available on Amazon and I have a website that is [Music]

44:21

www.ar.com and you can reach out to me I have a group I work with nas istic um um

44:29

victims um in English in German and in French so yeah always reach out to me

44:35

I'm happy beautiful Mar well thank you again so much for coming on to the show I really appreciate it thank you awesome

44:43

well that is it for this episode of True Hope cast the official podcast with true hope Canada I'll leave links in the show

44:48

notes so you can connect with Marie and grab her book and check out her work um

44:53

yeah if you want if you want to leave us a review on iTunes feel free uh and Spotify for a star review but that is it

45:00

for this week we'll see you soon [Music]